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Childhood Sexual Abuse, and Sexual Favours
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itgetsbetter
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itgetsbetter
Last activity on 30/11/2020 at 17:32
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Hiya, great to read that you had a good night. It was also nice that a taxi was sent out for you.
Have you managed to get out today?
I have been working and have not been home too long. I am trying to resist the urge to take the decorations/tree down or wait until Thursday when I am off. I always feel guilty taking the tree down after choosing it out of a field for our benefit.
Despite it being frosty ,it has been a nice sunny day.
Yes the house is at peace as the boys have gone back . I do miss them though. i personally feel that your anger management support need to know about the totally inappropriate actions of your dad; they are so unacceptable.
It is sad that your dad does sound like he is now suffering but I don't feel sorry for him as his alcoholism is his own choice; you didn't have a choice nor do you now.
He deserves to be punished ,as what he has done is sick ; sadly he isn't the only one in society guilty of abusing others. I completely understand how angry you feel towards his actions as he is still abusing you now ;so don't waste your energy/sympathy on him.
I have told my ex that ' I hope that he gets everything that he deserves in life' I will leave the interpretation up to you but I think that you will know that it isn't meant in a good way.
Yes, he may be your dad and I understand your statement however ,a loving dad wouldn't do all that he has/is doing. Dads protect their children. Love comes in different forms but him abusing isn't love in my opinion. He is a bully. Don't let your conscience own his behaviour.
Perhaps if he is coming to the end of his life ,then with support for you ; ask him to explain how he could do such a thing to you? Once he is dead you will no longer be able to address your issues with him; please remember that.xx
My friend who was abused by her dad couldn't wait for him to die. In my opinion the memories will still remain but it is what you do with them and how you manage them that I would struggle with. as magic switch doesn't erase your mind/flashbacks once they die.It may be a case of channeling those memories ??
Perhaps you mum isn't accepting of the fact that she knowingly allowed your dad to abuse you? To admit/acknowledge is a sign of failure and she did fail you. I can laugh now but if someone upset/hurt my sons I would be like a banshee; I would have killed for them. I was never violent or abusive but no one hurt my boys.
I think you realize that you are unlikely ever to hear your mum acknowledge/accept her actions or lack of.
Sweet Mary; you are not crazy regarding the arousal thoughts; hormones are a law unto themselves. See what your counsellor suggests.
The rainbow is getting closer ; stay strong and focused on what is important.....you. xxx
Oodles of love + hugs.
Julie xxxxx
StumpyDavies
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StumpyDavies
Last activity on 24/11/2020 at 00:04
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216 comments posted | 198 in the Living with anxiety and other mental illnesses group
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I've not got out yet, and now it's dark out, as you likely noticed after last nights conflicting thoughts over my dad, I couldn't sleep, I stayed up potching with the Android box to watch movies on, I now have it working perfectly, in a simple way to use to watch all the movies I have, without the need for a root explorer app, just the Kodi media player, so if I get the chance if I get the house to myself at any time, I can watch all the animated fun films I've not yet found the time to watch, along with horror/thriller movies that I know my parents hate, although after the 5th I can go back to my place to get some space in the nights, as my wall will be fixed, and reinforced, and the radiator will be able to be replaced as soon as I can get the heating engineers out, so maybe later on the 5th or later on the 6th after my counselling appointment, and I don't own a TV, but peace from the TV is always nice, I get bugged by constant noise from the TV or people talking, because of my Autism, hence putting my words out online or in emails is of great benefit to me.
I went to bed at 9am again this morning, and then got kept awake by a guy riding an off road bike back and forth from about 10am, so not slept well, and suffering with sore eyes, probably not helped by them being dry from the Beta Blockers, still, so gonna put some dry eye drops in
Hormones are definitely a law unto themselves, especially with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, the facial hair growth drives me insane, along with mood swings when it comes to that time, although I never know when that is, as I'm so irregular, the acne & extreme sweating, although the sweating has got less since Ritalin treatment, as that helps prevent the sweating I will see what my counsellor suggests, but I have a sneaking suspicion him being my drug and alcohol counsellor, he's gonna have a lack of experience in unwiring reactions, or maybe he can do it with drug and alcohol issues, but would be unsure how to interchange it for other/sexual issues, although, sex can be an addiction, so he may actually have some training in that area, so maybe at least worth asking and discussing it
If my counsellor can't help, I'm not looking forward to a referral to yet another professional, especially a psychologist, as I did see one once and had a bad experience
I really hated her, all she ever did was kept reminding me of the fact I'd missed 2 sessions through no fault of my own, heavy snow on the ground, and I was staying with my Auntie Val, my uncle Mike was laid up with a snapped tendon in his leg, so I was helping to look after my auntie Val who is in a wheelchair, but none the less a really supportive woman, I had no transport and because of the snow there were no buses, I don't drive, and another session a few days before as I was stuck at home, I actually couldn't get up my garden path it's on a slope, I actually slipped and fell, and she did nothing but harass and blame me for missing those sessions, and when I told her I blamed myself for not telling about my abuse sooner, by the guy down the street, that I blamed myself for him ending up also abusing his daughter, she said but you were just a child, why does that child deserve to be punished? She made me go back and asked what I'd say to that child now and I said nothing I'd just hug her, so she told me to do it, search in my mind and do it, it made me feel terrible, I cried like a blubbering baby, and it took me weeks to get over the trauma of that searching inside, and I said I never wanted to go back, and I never did, well I did, I attended my next session, and as she begun on her usual crusade of reminding me of the 2 sessions I'd missed, I stood up and shouted at the top of my voice for her to f**k off, not normal behaviour for me, as I tend to get on well with almost anyone, and very rarely ever raise my voice, I left and never went back, I was never offered another appointment with her, or anyone else, so I don't think there are any psychologists here, maybe I just haven't found the right one, but I think that'd possibly mean travelling a long distance to find one, as I think she's possibly the only one in South Wales, as she is about 15 mile drive, and so remote of a location it takes 3 buses to get there, so about an hour and 15 minutes by bus, if I have nobody to take me by car, I can't imagine travelling further than Swansea, ever, maybe there are more now, a lot of time has gone by since then, about 10 years.
But my experience of that psychologist makes me sceptical, if I'd ever find a psychologist helpful, but I do as a retired OT trust Helen's judgement, as she and other OT's have only ever given me good or helpful advice
I'm aware that not being able to wait for my dad to die, it means the memories will still remain, but once he's dead I know what to do with those memories, and how to manage them, I would struggle a little, as, as you say there is no magic switch to erase my mind/flashbacks once he dies, but I will be able to channel those memories, in the same ways I often channel those memories of the guy down the street, that despite his abuse being worse you may have noticed bothers me a lot less than my dad, because he's dead, and I've learnt to accept it more, partially forgive him in his absence/his death, and so I don't find it so hard/so painful to deal with, also time is a great healer.
You're right my dad does deserve to be punished, but he's punishing himself with the drinking, and I believe he has a stomach/peptic ulcer through drinking, and is becoming malnourished as he barely eats, and last night he was violently vomiting, I felt like crying, as all I ever wanted was a normal healthy dad, what if he can't help his sexualised behaviour, through the alcoholism, I'm so confused, I read this article, and it really hurt to read, http://immortalalcoholic.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/end-stage-definition.html and the part that stood out and really hit me, was, "Because of the amount of alcohol saturating the frontal lobe of the brain, the end-stage alcoholic personality, most often, is not the same as the personality of the same person without the alcohol. Some traits may include: easily angered; unrealistic demands; lack of determining appropriateness of actions; loss of short-term memory; highly emotional; easily confused, and; inability to determine night from day." I want to burst out into tears, yet I also want to beat the crap out of him, and part of me also believes, if he was to go to prison, he'd die, because of a lack of treatment for his alcoholism, and I don't want that, I'd like to suggest that they put him in hospital and do a clinical detox where he can get treatment, but in a sectioned like environment where he can't leave, I don't want to feel responsible for his death, were he to just go to prison
I'm trying to be positive and think about my own safety and freedom, but it's just so hard
*Oodles of hugs, wrapped with Love*
Stumpy. xxx
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Stumpy...x
itgetsbetter
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itgetsbetter
Last activity on 30/11/2020 at 17:32
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God morning; sorry about the delay ;I dislike it when I spend my time running round like a headless chicken. At the moment I can feel my anxiety starting to creep in again; I now need to take measures for me before it swamps me. These measures will be the ones that I recommend others doing; at the moment I am finding it hard to relax and am struggling to put everything in to practice. When I finish my shift later today, I am intending to concentrate on my breathing in a relaxing frame of mind; in my bedroom listening to either calming music or a relaxation CD. My diet has shot out of the window and I have been eating rubbish. When I was in such a bad place ,I lost over 3 stone in weight....that was the best thing to come out of my ex's actions.. At the start of it ,it was due to all the usual stress/anxiety/trauma but towards the end it was the only thing that I could control. It made me feel so good. I long to find that control again; but as we know their is only one person who can do that and that is ..me
I had a total hysterectomy after many years of suffering ,plus also from burying my head in the sand out of fear. Cancer in the females in my family was/is common but still I chose to ignore things. It was only when my sister after many, many years of suffering and being put on various medication paid privately for a hysterectomy. Despite being informed straight after the operation that 'everything was fine' , the biopsy proved him wrong and she had cancer. My GP was amazing and referred me to the 'rapid response ' team. Thank God ,my biopsy came back clear.
Due to the risk of cancer , I declined HRT which the Consultant completely understood. It is a standing joke at work regarding my 'flushes'
The down side is that my libido must have been 'washed away ' in one of those flushes. I feel so guilty regarding my new partner and our relationship and I now think that is why I am comfort eating. I am in that horrible cycle again.
Going back to your post , yes it is a tragedy that your dad is now suffering due to his own actions but please understand that he chose the option to drink . At the beginning [I don't know your dads age] it was common to drink as that's what the men did, but today and in the last few years there has been help available but your dad 'chose' to ignore his issues.
I completely understand your words and no one wants to see anyone suffer but there never was or ever is any excuse acceptable for what your dad has done and has continued to do to you. Due to his ill health now it must be hard for you put aside what he has done to you.
I really do hope that before he eventually dies that you manage to get some sort of answers from him or that you hear what it is that will bring you peace within you.
I can also understand your anger aimed at the psychologist but as an outsider and hopefully a now friend ;look at the bigger picture. She was probably frustrated that you didn't make contact cancelling your appointment which would have then freed up a slot for someone else that needed it or could have benefited from it. I see how stretched they are at the alcohol/drug abuse Centre that I attend with one of the men that I support
In order to get you to address your inner most thoughts/memories enabling you to get to a better place those 'issues' have to be dragged up, painful as they are. There are methods to their madness as the saying goes. It can be a very painful, hurtful position to be in as would be at your most vulnerable but until they have been raked up/addressed/ talked about then will never truly be put to bed.
I don't think that you need me advising you to try and establish some sort of routine . Sleep is essential for us all .
Stick with it lovely lady, you are amazing in your approach/attitude. Stay focused on your goals and never underestimate your achievements and how far you have come. You have a wealth of experience which could be utilized to help others.
I do hope that today is gentle for you and some good news/outcome fills your day.
Wrap up warm if you manage to get out ;its a tad chilly.
Big hugs wrapped with oodles of love.
Julie x
StumpyDavies
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StumpyDavies
Last activity on 24/11/2020 at 00:04
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216 comments posted | 198 in the Living with anxiety and other mental illnesses group
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Hey Julie, I'm in pain today it's that dreaded menstrual cramp to go along with my Polycystic Ovaries, I didn't sleep well last night, I am going to enquire about the cost of a private hysterectomy including removal of ovaries whilst in Thailand, perhaps ready for next year, if the doctors in the UK do not start listening how badly it's affecting my life :)
I did not explain with the psychologist I saw that I had made contact 3 days prior to each appointment due to inclement weather to cancel the appointments, but the psychologist refused to accept the inclement weather as grounds to cancel, as if she could get to work, she lived only 2 minutes drive compared to my 15-20 minutes drive, she had no idea just how bad the snow was at my end, and literally harassed me about it every appointment, she was one of the most inconsiderate horrible persons I have ever met, as good as her intentions may have been, I really did not need that treatment from someone who was supposed to be there to help me, there is making a mention, then there is harassing every appointment, and it was harassing, I literally got to the point of being so angry, I really wanted her out of my face before I did something I'd later regret, hence my reluctance to consider seeing another psychologist :)
I have managed to get out today despite the pain and how lousy I feel, sitting in Costa having a coffee, then headed to the chemist to pick up some ibuprofen, before heading to KFC for some food, and then to the drug and alcohol project for arts and crafts, although I'm not up to doing anything, just going to be in positive company :)
I have zero libedo, never have had a libedo, the closest I've come is arousal, and that's it, as said before, usually anything sexual grosses me out, so I think for me, having a hysterectomy would just stop the pain of menstruation and the cramps I associate with my abuse, and in turn partially control the flashbacks, nothing else would change, I'm not saying I'd never get flashbacks after, but it would limit them, as I'd no longer have that menstrual cramp that I so associate to my abuse x
I get so much pain during vaginal sex and have done all my life, I couldn't possibly have a libedo, and as for pap smear they can shove that painful pile of crap where it belongs, I'll never have another one done, not ever, until doctors can explain why I find it so badly agonizing, it's a never, I'd rather have cancer and not know, it's that bad, I'd sooner have the dentist rip all my teeth out with no anaesthesia, than go through the pain of pap smear, and that is putting it mildly, and politely lol, I really would not have one done, unless they were to put me under to do it, my pain tolerance is amazing, but that I draw the line at, I'd sooner they slice me open abdominally without anaesthetic even, they just don't understand what I mean when I say it's painful, I bled for 9 months solid after the last one I had, and that is not normal, but the doctors here refuse to investigate, they just treat it as unexplained bleeding :(
I will get what I need one way or another even if it means private treatment :)
*Oodles and oodles of hugs wrapped carefully with love*
Stumpy. X
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Stumpy...x
itgetsbetter
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itgetsbetter
Last activity on 30/11/2020 at 17:32
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Thanks for your email. It did make me giggle .
Is there any chance that damage was caused during your abuse?
I detested having smears and couldn't wait until they would go from every 3 years to every 5. They didn't hurt but it was the embarrassment and yet despite going in to nursing when I was 18 and so understanding how often the medical profession see you undressed etc and understanding that it is 'just in a days work' it was embarrassing..
I had a tilted uterus and so getting a 'good sweep' wasn't always easy. At one point I was asked that many times to 'slip further down the bed' that I did inform the nurse that 'if I slipped anymore then I would be undressed'. I would question the medics as to why you experience so much discomfort. You really don't wish cancer; it is a horrible painful way to die.
Nor should you be fobbed off regarding the horrendous periods. I speak from experience not only personally but due to my sister being diagnosed with cancer.
See another GP and get referred , if not already. My monthlies completely ruled my life and the joy of having them all whipped out is brilliant. The only downside is the libido but there are ways around that .
Some so called 'professionals' shouldn't be in their chosen job; If you haven't got compassion. understanding and empathy then get out of the job.
Did you watch 'Noleen Collen in therapy' last night? I would recommend you watch it. I was thinking of you.
Hope that you have managed to have a 'gentle day'
Big hugs wrapped in love; as always
Julie xxxx
StumpyDavies
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StumpyDavies
Last activity on 24/11/2020 at 00:04
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I don't know if any damage was caused during my abuse, without them investigating, there is no way of knowing, anyway I had quite a good day today, I've walked a lot today, I've also had the wall at my flat repaired, although will take several days due to the cold for the plaster to dry, before the radiator can finally be re-attached, I had my tenancy support worker come see me, as suspected she wasn't helpful, and it felt like a bit of a waste of time, but at least it didn't make me feel worse in mood, she did understand my need to cancel her last visit and go get emotional support at the drug and alcohol project
I've not seen 'Noleen Collen in therapy', will try and watch it some time
Some good news, I told a Police PCSO about my abuse today, and told him I intend to report it fully after my holiday, I felt the need to for his support in getting the number of the British Consulate in Thailand, for if I needed to return early and get his permission to contact him via Facebook if I just generally felt like I needed support and someone in a more legal position to talk to while out there, and he seemed ok with that, but did say he's got a lot of training courses coming up during the next month, so may not always be around to chat, but that's ok, just knowing that he's there, and will reply if there is a need as and when he can makes me feel a little more secure
I am off to see my actual local PCSO in 45 mins, the one today was from the next village over, but I see more of him than my local PCSO, to also explain to him the situation, so I have plenty of Police support when I get back, and decide to make the report, as there will be officers from both county's as I live right on the county border, who know, and advise their colleagues once the report has been made, as both these PCSO's understand my mental health too
I'm gonna take my Anger Management Support Worker (Sarah) with me to the GP when I get home from Thailand, to insist a referral is made to a gynaecologist, to try to find out why I get such severe pain during pap smear, and hopefully to try to get the hysterectomy I so desperately want to help re-gain some extra control of my life
*Lots of Hugs Wrapped Gently & Precisely with Love*
Stumpy. xxxx
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StumpyDavies
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StumpyDavies
Last activity on 24/11/2020 at 00:04
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I've just got back, and also now spoken with my local PCSO about my abuse, so I now have his support when I get back too, so really positive, I feel so much safer with them knowing and being able to help me if I get to a point where I feel unsafe
*Hugs & Squishes, Wrapped with Love*
Stumpy. xxx
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Stumpy...x
itgetsbetter
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itgetsbetter
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OMG. Well done!!. You are like a new person as you are totally focused. You really are taking control of your life and your future.
Brilliant that you will have the police support. Would they be putting you in contact a Domestic Abuse Unit? I do hope that they will get you the necessary back up.
Great idea taking Sarah with you. She may not say anything but knowing that she is there beside you will help your confidence.x
Lovely to read that you managed to get out for a walk; always a positive mentally. You really have had a positive day all round, the bonus being that you managed not to stay calm when with the tenancy support worker. It has been a tad chilly today but hopefully it will get warmer and you will be back in your flat asap. Are the wheels in motion for moving yet?
What date do you go to Thailand?
I am making moves to look for another job; still in support though. I am sick of being in work every morning before 7.30 am 6 days a week plus having to go back to clear up after any Baptisms.
I will miss working at the homes for with adults with learning difficulties but I need to do what is right for me as I don't really feel challenged' enough . I have applied for one tonight at a Retirement Village as I love working with the elderly. Finger crossed. I had been thinking about a job change for a few months but it is only now that I am 'going for it.
I was so angry yesterday as my youngest was 21 and his so called 'dad' couldn't even get in touch nor did any of his family.
Your post has really cheered me up ;it is apparent that you are now planning your future/destiny.
Never give up your dreams/aspiration. You are a wonderful lady with so much to offer.
Oodles + oodles of love; wrapped with big hugs.
Julie xxxx
StumpyDavies
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StumpyDavies
Last activity on 24/11/2020 at 00:04
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I can't wait to see Huw, my counsellor (drug & alcohol) tomorrow, he doesn't know yet that I've now told the Police PCSO's and got their support, I don't know if they'd be putting me in touch with a domestic abuse unit, but their likely to put me in touch with something along those lines when I make the report, although I'll welcome their support, I have other plans for my safety, there is a company here in South Wales called Gofal, and they specialise in housing for people with Mental health issues, they have a hostel with 24/7 support staff, local refuge's are not the nicest of places, and a domestic abuse unit is likely to make a suggestion of using a refuge, where as I'd rather be somewhere with better equipped support staff, and if there was to be any trouble like my dad turning up there, the police would be called, urgently
Sarah has authority to speak on my behalf, I have signed documents to that effect, and if she feels my GP isn't listening, she will voice her opinion, so would be more than just a confidence boost
The only reason I managed to stay calm when with Angela my tenancy support worker, was because the contractor being there fixing and reinforcing my wall, it has been more than a tad chilly today, it has been frosty and icy, not too bothered about it getting warmer, I'll likely not be back in my flat until after my holiday, I have the contractors back on the 11th to look at the dampness on the other wall, and it has been suggested they may have to take the whole wall down, and re-plaster for the same reason as the wall where the radiator fell off, damp between the cavity because of dot and dab plaster, and inadequate insulation (polystyrene), they want to hack the plaster board off to find out if that is the reason, my window was also fixed today by the contractors, so now opens and is no longer jammed, no wheels in motion for moving yet, as Angela said there are no properties anywhere in the area I wish to move to, with them, it's been suggested I look for a private rental, and apply with other housing associations, and the council, but I expected this, I didn't tell Angela of my plans to report my dad's abuse, as I don't want her to know I'll be abandoning my flat, in favour of a hostel or refuge for my safety, as she has to report that back to my housing officer, and I don't want any unnecessary problems when I do
I go to Thailand on the 17th Flying Heathrow to Bangkok, then Bangkok to Chiangmai
Glad you're making moves to find another job, you'll be happier in, but are still considering staying in the support field, you say you prefer to work with elderly, but will miss the learning difficulties work, can you not work with both? there are support organisations that deal with both, Mind, the Alzheimers Society, a lot of housing associations, places like Tracscare, or Scope, check if any of these have anything available
So sorry you're youngest son turned 21, and his so called 'dad' couldn't even be bothered to get in touch and nor did any of his family, that is such a shame, I hope you were able to ease you're son's disappointment
Am glad my post really cheered you up
*Oodles and oodles of hugs wrapped very gently with Love*
Stumpy. xxxx
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StumpyDavies
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StumpyDavies
Last activity on 24/11/2020 at 00:04
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I had a massive row with my dad on Thursday night, leaving me feeling even more unsafe than I'd already been feeling, I contemplated going back to my flat to stay despite having no proper heating and the new plaster on the wall still being wet, but I'd rather not get ill from the cold, so am still here, at my parents, I went out early Friday morning to go and wait for Huw my counsellor to arrive, he was fab as usual, his usual supportive self, back in work mode, not holiday mode
He totally understood my need to have a rant and a vent, and admitted he was angry about my dad's fresh sexual/inappropriate advancements/behaviour towards me over Christmas and the impact it had on me, he was proud I managed not to score and use any drugs, despite feeling like it, wanting to run away from my feelings, I told him I'd also emailed the head of the activities, but received no reply, he has usually always replied to previous emails, but admittedly he may have just been shocked, and not have known what to say, but as I explained to Huw it would have just been nice to have received an acknowledgement that he'd at least received my email, at least with Huw when I text him despite him still being in holiday mode, and not getting the reply I hoped for, he did acknowledge receipt of my texts, he is aware that I found his reply odd, and that had he have replied differently I may have reacted differently, and reported my abuse there and then, but he also admitted that it was intentional on his part, and I do understand why, as he was concerned had I have done that, I'd have thrown away my holiday and because of the holiday period, that there may have been nobody around to protect my safety, and that I would have thrown away all the money I've paid, lost my one and only chance to ever go to Thailand, because of the complexities of taking my medication with me, and all the trouble I'd gone to, would have all been for nothing, he is aware that my auntie Val is going, so he said he believes/hopes I'll be safe enough, and for me to stick by her, keep my distance from my dad as much as possible, and in the event I need to get away use the the British Consulate number that I have been given by the police PCSO's, something he's also proud of, that I found the courage to tell them, he said it sounds like when I come back, things could move very quickly, so he'll be there for me as much as he can be, as he realises that things could get really difficult, he also suggested I go see the AMHP/CPN with the CDAT team down in Swansea who can provide me with extra support in making the report, so I'll look at that when I get back
I also spoke with the other counsellor at the clinic who works along side Huw so if he does need to take time off at any time, then she is aware of my circumstances, and in a position to help if I need
I had a bit of fun banter tonight in a Facebook group I belong to and had a bit of a giggle for the first time in a long time, so that was really good too, felt good, really lifted my spirits
I'm off to Swansea tomorrow to meet with my friends, or should I now say later today, as it's now nearly 3am
Hope you're OK,
*Oodles and oodles of hugs wrapped as always with Love*
Stumpy. Xxx
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StumpyDavies
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StumpyDavies
Last activity on 24/11/2020 at 00:04
Joined in 2016
216 comments posted | 198 in the Living with anxiety and other mental illnesses group
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Since talking with numerous professionals from counsellors to psychiatrists about my Childhood Sexual Abuse, I guess I expected some practical help, as well as talking about what happened, and how to prevent future abuse.
Today I've felt like crying most of the day, felt alone, I was asked yet another favour, so far I've avoided it, but I'm not sure how long I can avoid it, I want to get away so badly, I just want a safe place to sit, or to sleep, but it seems like it's just too much to ask.
I did go to Mind today, their last half day before Christmas, and that is one of the places that I feel safe, but now I feel trapped, with nowhere to go, no public transport.
I honestly thought my my abuse was over, but it appears not, I'm looking forward to Christmas and New Year being over, so I can feel safe.
Every noise puts me on edge, I can go out for a walk, but that is the best I can hope for to escape the noise, other than using my ear defenders.
I really hope I can at least make it through Christmas, without being forced into something I'm not comfortable with, but I guess I'm not hopeful.