Personal Independence Payment and how to claim it

Hi @GildaT, I recently posted on this in the Good to Know forum - here is part of the posting, which has a bearing here I think :)

 This is the link to the whole thing: 

https://member.carenity.co.uk/discussions/Personal_Independence_Payment_and_how_to_claim_it-580

Having resisted claiming the care component of DLA for all these years, it was now quite obvious that as the list of things I can’t do is winning by a head over the list of things I can do, my level of mobility is decreasing rapidly and the pain levels are increasing at a rather alarming rate, I was going to have to consider claiming the Daily Living component of DLA too, or so I thought. 

I rang the DLA to ‘report changes’, and was told that I would have to claim PIP, not only that, but once I did, my lifetime award for the Mobility Component was invalidated and that would be transferred to PIP too.  DLA would continue to pay me while the claim was assessed, but once I had a decision, it would all be transferred to PIP.  The lady was at pains to let me know that just because I had a Lifetime Award of DLA Mobility, did not mean I would qualify for PIP automatically.  It almost sounded as if she was trying to put me off doing it.

Hmm, let joy be unconfined!  Like many, I had heard the horror stories about unfair PIP decisions, but the lady at DLA had said assessment had started in my area already, so no doubt I would soon be transferred anyway, and I really did need to claim for the Care Component, so hey-ho, bring it on.

I recently therefore, had the ‘pleasure’ of filling in a PIP form. What a soul destroying task!  It actually took me the best part of a week, researching it, finding out what is was they were actually asking, drafting out answers, correcting them and finally, baring my soul on this form, which with all the additional pages of explanation attached, would have given ‘War and Peace’ a run for its money in length!

I guess there are many of you who like me, try to wear a mask to the world.  When asked how we are, we are ALWAYS, ‘fine thanks’, even though we are anything but fine.  The enquirer really doesn’t want to know in great detail just how ‘not fine’ we are, so we offer a bright smile (unless you suffer from TN and can’t smile), a breezy comment; they have done their duty and enquired, we have not driven them away by information overload! J

I guess there are also many of you who like me, push yourself to do things.  These are things you really can’t do, but sometimes, when there is no one else, when help is not at hand, you summon every bit of resolve, adrenaline and sheer will power and do them.  You may well be observed doing these things by neighbours and others, but what they don’t see are the hours afterwards when the pain is so severe that it reduces you to tears, causes you pop even more pills in the hope of getting some drug induced oblivion, or that you simply can’t function for three days because of what you did on one.

We do these things to retain some semblance of a normal life.  Are we fine?  Can we do these things?  No we are not and no we can’t, but what is the alternative? Become such a ‘Moaning Minni’ that friends start giving us a wide berth?  Let our life deteriorate even more than it has because we can’t do something and there is no help or no one to do it instead?

This is our reality ……………… and then we have to fill out a PIP form!

Every help forum, every advice line, every news article or blog you read about our new benefit system for the disabled, makes it plain that in order to be awarded PIP, you need to admit to everything, not gloss over anything, not let embarrassment prevent you from listing a particularly personal problem or difficulty, not try to put on a brave face, not try to make light of your problems.  You need to paint the bleak, stark picture of the reality you have not ever allowed yourself to face!

As a system I believe was designed to ‘empower the disabled’ if you read the rhetoric, was there ever anything so dis-empowering designed?

No credit is given for struggling on in the face of adversity; no allowance for trying hard to do something, even if you pay for it for days after; no credit for playing down the severity of your problems in the hope of avoiding depression and staying upbeat!

The very form dis-ables you.  It took me the best part of eight days to complete it and gather together the appropriate evidence from my files, then photocopy the whole lot, just in case they lost it, which I understand happens with amazing regularity.  It then took me ten days to get myself back to normal, well, what passes for normal in my life!  I felt old, I felt ill – the pain felt worse because I had admitted just how bad it was; I had listed in painstaking detail the things I could not do – it took me days to re-focus on what I could do; I had embarrassingly listed every aid I use and more embarrassingly, why I have to use them, when I normally try and pretend to myself that they don’t exist!

I didn’t recognise me from this form.  This person was a disabled wreck, where was the bright, intelligent, person with the satirical sense of humour?  Where was the person with stubborn determination to be the best she can be despite the hurdles?  Where was I?

The form duly submitted, I have received the standard acknowledgement and now await the inevitable medical assessment. Every brown envelope that lands on the doormat is viewed a little as one might view a rather large spider, with caution and apprehension in case it bites or carries a sting in the tail!  Typically, because of winding up the business I am getting more than the usual amount of brown envelopes on my doormat!  More opportunities for my heart to jump into my throat and my blood pressure to take a hike in the upward direction.  Avoid stress the hospital said on discharge – fat chance!

Before finishing this observation on claiming PIP, I would just like to commend a website I found.  Being an avid researcher and Googler of all manner of things, I obviously Googled for information on completing a PIP claim.  I found a site called Benefits and Work, www.benefitsandwork.co.uk.  There was a membership fee, I think it was a few pennies under £20 for the year, but you can then use all the resources.  I joined and downloaded their notes on completing a PIP form.  They were brilliant and I don’t think I could have done it without them.  I would not have put enough information down for sure, without their guidance of how to do it.  I might still not have done it right, only time will tell on that one, but I feel much more confident having had that help that I would have done without it.

Having just claimed ESA for the first time too, I am now in the happy position of awaiting two medical assessments.  I just hope the rest of the process is kinder than the start of it, but as it involves ATOS, I am not holding my breath on that one!  No doubt further articles will follow as the journey continues J

This article appeared on a website I belong to called Benefits and Work.  It is a most excellent site and I would heartily recommend it to anyone in the benefits system - there is a membership fee, but I have already found it worth every penny!

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3172-pip-refused-for-spending-too-much-time-on-facebook

PIP  refused for spending too much time on Facebook

A shocked welfare rights worker, posting on Rightsnet, has revealed how his client had their personal independence payment (PIP) appeal refused because of the amount of time the claimant allegedly spent on Facebook.

Accused of lying
The claimant had appealed to a first-tier tribunal about the decision on their PIP claim and attended an oral hearing with a representative.

Whilst considering their mental health, the claimant was asked by the panel whether they ever used Facebook. The claimant replied that they did so ‘now and again’.

After all the evidence had been taken, the claimant and their representative returned to the waiting room while the tribunal made their deliberations.

However, when they were called back before the panel to hear the decision, the claimant was accused of lying to the tribunal. The medical panel member had the claimant’s Facebook page open on their smartphone and was reading from it, clearly taking the view that the number of posts was too frequent to be regarded as ‘now and again’.

Because the evidence gathering phase of the appeal had ended, the claimant was not allowed to respond, they could only listen to the decision of the tribunal in shocked silence.

Thus they were given no opportunity to challenge the accusation that they were lying or to explain that their partner also used their Facebook page.

Instead, they must now go through the lengthy process of asking for a statement of reasons from the tribunal judge – which can take many weeks or months to be provided - before asking for the decision to be set aside or appealing to the upper tribunal.

Breach of natural justice
There is a very strong probability that the decision will be overturned because it is such a flagrant breach of natural justice: the decision was based on evidence acquired by the panel itself from elsewhere and the claimant was given no opportunity to comment on it.

But, as well as leaving a big question mark over the quality of training for tribunal members, this episode also raises the possibility that claimants’ use of social media may in the future be used as evidence when making decisions on benefits entitlement.

If all the facts are collected and the claimant is given the opportunity to comment on them, this may just be another indignity that claimants are expected to learn to live with. Either that or claimants will need to make sure that their online life is kept as private as possible.

But if decisions are made based on partial evidence and wrong assumptions, as in this case, it will simply lead to more unfairness and injustice for sick and disabled people

Here is another news article from the excellent Benefits and Work site:  

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3147-thousands-die-after-being-found-fit-for-work

 Thousands die after being found fit for work

The release of the employment and support allowance (ESA) death statistics yesterday revealed that 2,380 ESA claimants died within six weeks of being found fit for work between December 2011 and February 2014. The DWP have denied that any link can be made between the decisions and the death of claimants, whist Jeremy Corbyn has called for Iain Duncan Smith to resign.

Figures released by the DWP show that 2,380 ESA claimants died within six weeks of being found capable of work.

The figures also show that 1,340 died after completing an appeal against a decision that they were fit for work.

A further 270 IB/SDA claimants died after being found capable of work and 20 more IB/SDA claimants died after an appeal.

Assuming there is no overlap between these figures, the total number who died after being found fit for work is 4,010

According to the DWP:

"The mortality rate for people who have died while claiming an out-of-work benefit has fallen over a 10-year period. This is in line with the mortality rate for the general working-age population.

"The government continues to support millions of people on benefits with an £80bn working-age welfare safety net in place."

However, Labour party leadership front-runner Jeremy Corbyn has called on IDS to resign:

“He should never have been appointed. Yes, he should resign because these figures are so frightening and so disgusting,” he told a hustings event hosted by the Daily Mirror newspaper.

“I’ve had people with mental health difficulties as well as physical difficulties who are absolutely in despair because they’ve been declared fit for work and are absolutely not.”

Benefits and Work is currently studying the figures the DWP has released and hopes to provide more information about the disturbing trends behind them next week.

We also plan to make further freedom of information requests with the aim of shedding more light on these disturbing statistics.

The full figures can be downloaded from these links:

Mortality statistics: ESA, IB and SDA claimants

Mortality statistics: out-of-work benefit claimants, March 2003 to February 2014

Thanks a lot @Suncatcher2015 , from know on all the discussions about paperwork and procedures like this would be great if we could create them on this group so we can have kind of a "library" that everyone can come to whenever they have doubts about this :)

Thanks for always contributing

Best,

Gilda 

Wow,  Suncatcher, that's a brilliant article on PIP - extremely well written.   I hope your medical interview goes well; and the outcome is a positive one.

I'm 67 years young; and find my mobility waning at an incredible rate.  I'm considering making an application for PIP - DLA.   Although; there are some horrible stories by people who have been turned down for these benefits.    I wonder if it's worth applying?  Seems the Government has taken the decision making process away from the DWP; and placed it in the hands of a private company; who's main aim is to save the Government as much money as possible, by making uncaring, unjust decisions about people with disabilities.

 Perhaps a petition is needed to highlight the problems of disabled people; and the unfair process one has to endure, when applying for PIP or DLA.   There must be some changes made to the system; surely there is a fairer system than the one in operation at present.

Hi Suncatcher2015

I know exactly what you mean i claimed and had my assessment for pip (new claim) luckily my housing association have a welfare benefit advisor attached to them i wish i had known this when i filled out my form for esa, anyway i was lucky with my assessment for pip as i had read hundreds of times it was sooo hard to get this help, anyway i passed my assessment with 18 points and was awarded standard rate care and standard rate mobility until 2021, not to be assessed again before 2020 which was a fantastic achievement as most people are only awarded this for a couple of years at the most.

My ESA assessment i failed with 0 points 2 months after being awarded PIP, i scored 0 points in in esa assessment and i do understand disabled people do and can work to. But for some reason despite the fact in pip i can only walk over 20 metres but not 50 metres without it causing me to have to stop due to chronic pain and not being able to repeat doing the task, the esa assessment totally ignored this and the evidence which was the same evidence that was supplied to pip. 

Apparently their words (DWP Assessor) when she phoned me,  "we are not denying you have these medical conditions but we find you can work whilst using a self propelling wheelchair carrying an empty cardboard box," baring in mind i have osteoarthritis in the thumbs and little fingers plus trigger finger so i am not quite sure how i can propel a wheelchair myself let along trying to carry an empty cardboard box on my lap haha. So as you can imagine i am going to appeal this first with a mandatory reconsideration of which i have 3 letters that have been written for me for this by my Oncologist, GP and my Physiotherapist. If this does not work then i will be going to the appeal court.

Unfortuntaly DWP are a law unto themselves, and are not interested in looking after the disabled, sick, elderly, or anyone that does not have millions in the bank.

I have worked all my life from the age of 14 (still at school) until june 2015. I was still employed until then but had been out sick since august 2014, i worked and raised 4 children the last one as a single mother from the time she was a year old, she is now nearly 19 and is at University. My eldest child is  a chef, my eldest daughter is also at university as a single mum of 3 gorgeous children, and my next daughter works as a personal assistant, but is on maternity leave at the moment after the birth of my youngest grandson, and she has 2 boys and always worked and fully intends to go back after her maternity leave is ended. 

The problem with me i think is the fact i have worked all my life and suddenly beyond my control i came out onto long term sick and they do not understand that i can never return to a full time employment or even do 16 hours a week, my doctor and physio reckon the most i could do is a couple of hours a day, unfortuntaly this would not earn me enough to live on let alone pay my bills, so either way i am stuffed so i have to fight this all the way, then start agin if needs must.

Sorry for the long rant and comment lol

I hope everyone has a good day xxx

Hi Nytsom

As you said in your comment you are 67 you would need to claim Attendance Allowance not Pip, if you have never claimed for DLA, as DLA is claimed for under 16's now, PIP is for 16 to 64 working age group and Attendance Allowance is for anyone over the age of 64 retirement, it is very rare for you to have an assessment for attendance allowance, so i would go ahead and make a claim for it hun.

Best of luck

I am disabled and have been claiming DLA for a number if years now & the last year or so was also put on ESA. My local job centre contacts me every year asking me to come into their offices for an interview but I have told them that I cannot get into town & as their office is on the 1st floor with no lift, I wouldn't be able to get up there anyway.  They contacted me & said at a certain date at a certain time one of their people would contact me for a telephone interview which they did.  I have never gone through anything like what this lady put me through, trying to tie me up in knots with my answers so that I wouldn't even know what I was saying. I have been told that at sometime I will have to make a claim for PIP as my DLA will stop & I am absolutely dreading this now as I have heard horror stories from people who have also gone through this procedure.

hi i have appiled for pip and my assessment id tomorrow any one got any tips???

Hi all

Thanks suncatcher   for the info brill

Everyone  said I should try and claim pip  so I thought  I would try.  I phoned  today to start the process   she asked a load of questions then said she would post the forms off in the post,

 I've heard so many stories I'm wondering if I should have bothered I hate claiming for anything.